453 How to challenge and remove, the Evil of Babylon, Catholics and Satan. Check, on who really Runs the World. Part 2. See 4 1 2 for Part 1

Page 453

How to challenge and remove, the Evil of Babylon, Catholics and Satan. Check, on who really Runs the World. Book of Revelation, and the revealing of Babylon.

Evil Demonic Satan, spends all his time, enabling Mankind, on these following things:

– Gets People to Rebel against God

– Promises/Gives People, great Supernatural Satanic Powers, to Rule on the Earth

– Gets people to Worship Satan. They Often have supernatural manifestations, given to them

– Setting up Governing Authorities, Strategies etc, to Globalise – and bring Everything together.

– Setting up many other things, that Satan is involved in, such as the Catholic Vatican.

Satan’s Strategy, could use a multitude of secretive groups, networked together. These groups cannot be exposed too soon, until the purposes are completed.

These groups are unlinked, or even may seem opposed to each other, so as to smoke screen society – about what is actually going on.

Ephesians 6: 1 2, says it all, about the latter days attachment to Satan.

“ For our struggle is not against Flesh and Blood, but against:

– The Rulers

– The Powers

– The World Forces of this Darkness

– The Spiritual Forces of Wickedness, in the Heavenly Places. “

All the above, only has success, if it has the last days control by Satan – over Everybody. We are not fighting against Human Beings, when we try to change things in this World. We must understand, that ungodly Human beings (those outside Christ), are not in charge – of what is happening.

So if these ungodly people, are allowed to Vote for one man to rule, Satan may be allowed by God – to replace this leader, for a very short while. Maybe just Five years, of the seven, after Christians are taken to Heaven.

However, I do know, that God DOES intervene – at special times, related to his future purposes. This is Especially true, after the start of the last 7 years, and also before those 7 years start. That is now.

God does this many times in seasons, at special purpose times, when God’s people – are much more awake to Jesus. The people, then allow Jesus access. They, will then be more effective, with God’s help.

These times are restricted, and usually coincide, with a time when a nation repents – and calls out to God. This nation, is not just a Few People. Example of this, was Israel and Ninevah.

To figure everything out properly, we should be focussing, on God’s Kingdom – not on Satan’s. We are not in the darkness, but are in the light. Jesus our creator, who existed, ages before Satan comes to Earth – during last 7 Years, has far more power, and much Vaster ability. This to ensure Christians are safe.

Therefore, we can safely seek those things, which are above – and not need to seek those things, which are on the Earth, as Satan will do.

We should only concentrate, on those things we are now able to change. We are to seek God’s Kingdom First. If we concern ourselves, too much with the things in the world, we may get too focussed on them – and stop focussing, on the things we should concentrate on. This would mean, our seed, would become unfruitful.

If we did concentrate on wrong things, we would become worldly. We would no longer be different, from everybody else. We must be different, from being worried about this Earth. Jesus said, my Kingdom is not of this World. We must realise, that our living on this Earth, is not important.

Jesus’s Kingdom, is entirely different, and is ruled perfectly – with absolute Truth, in:

– Holiness

– Purity

– Loveliness

– Excellence

– Praiseworthiness

It is full of:

– True Peace

– Joy

– Love.

The Greatest Fullness of these last 8 things (5 and 3), will be, when Jesus returns from Heaven – and reigns on the Earth. This will be during the soon start, of the one thousand years, which covers time later – after completion of the 6 0 0 0 years, and the very soon start of Jesus/Heaven, for years to 7 0 0 0.

As explained earlier, and matching what is happening so clearly now, in the World – with predictions in the Bible, we will probably see this start happening, from our years now. That is, of Oct 2 0 2 2 to Oct 2 0 2 3. This was explained, on previous Blogs. But for now, we must focus, on the Kingdom of Jesus – being in our hearts.

We cannot produce that Earthly Kingdom reign now, by our own means, and it cannot happen – until Jesus reigns physically on Earth first, after the 7 years. This will happen, after He removes the Kingdom of Darkness, and the TRUE Light can shine. Having said that, Christians are called to be Watchman. They need to watch, what is going on, and pray.

So it is useful, to understand, what is going on – so that we can intercede in prayer, and comfort one another. We can use these events, to witness, and save as many as possible. This is also good, so that we can alert, and warn Fellow believers – to: “come out of Babylon”

We need to “come out of Babylon etc”, in these last days, so that we are all prepared – for the return of Jesus.

New subject, now starts here. I now reveal my findings, on False Religions:

What I have noticed, is that there are many organisations, which seem to fit together – into ONE GIANT CONSPIRACY. This is not just Common Purpose. For example, where do you think Rick Warren got his ideas, of: THE PEACE AGENDA? Also note, that he seems to have borrowed the term Common Purpose, founded in 1 9 8 9 – in his movement called Purpose Driven, in 1 9 9 0’s time.

Did you know, that Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton,  collaborated with New Age queen Anita Roddick – in 1 9 8 8? This was to work together, on creating Common Purpose? We are then left, with these questions:

– Where did New Age originate?

– How did Emerging Church Start?

– Who are the Bilderbergers?

– How do Bilderbergers Fit in?

– What about the Illuminati?

I will now introduce this new section, by first quoting, from another person’s words – in blue and red, which illustrate something.

“ Hi, I had just spent a night looking at Brian Gerrish’s Videos, about Common Purpose (CP). Also, I had looked, at what other people had to say – as well as CP’s own Website. As a Bible believing Christian, I have really had my eyes opened, over the last Few years.

I feel totally let down, with the realisation, that we have been sold out as a nation – to the EU, and that really our Politicians are just Puppets. They do the bidding, of their masters.

I would truly love to find out, what motivates these masters. Are they really involved in secret societies, and occult practices. It would appear so.

I think that they are engineering, this Financial crisis. We are seeing problems with Greece, and other EU states. But the UK can’t be far behind, with more problems coming our way.

I feel we are on a countdown, to the Final events of history. We don’t know the exact sequence, but I think, we all have that feeling – that things are ‘hotting up’.

Getting back to Common Purpose, I just feel, that when you look at the people who have done the courses – and the cost to the public purse, there are revealed FACTS.

Facts, that graduates supposedly meet together, and operate under Chatham House Rules. All this bothers me. I am sick to my stomach, of all the Political Correctness ”

I believe this Brian Gerrish, maybe giving too much attention, to the World System – as if things could be better, than they are. Like many people, they are still hoping for a utopia, on Earth right now – and that this life is something to desire, and be enjoyed now.

We must remember, that this “World” is passing away. The life we experience now, is just temporal. When Jesus said, that we would know life, and know it more abundantly – He is not referring to our time NOW – of enjoying the temporal things of the world now, or life in THIS realm.

He is referring to the Eternal Heavenly Life (Later), that He will give us. He is talking about a transformed later life, by the power of the Holy Spirit, to live a Victorious Christian life – over sin and condemnation. We now, before our new life, can enjoy these things:

– Peace

– Love

– Joy

These things, are now in our hearts, despite the circumstances – of living in this Decaying World. We must remind ourselves, that things will get worse, not better – and so we must gear ourselves, to be ready for this. We are told to rejoice, and not complain, when things get worse.

I started this investigation, by researching Common Purpose. I ended up by researching many other different organisations, which all seemed to be connected, in one way or another.

I felt I needed to look at the histories, behind these organisations, and how/why they were Founded. I couldn’t help but notice, that there were many, common Traits/Ideas.

Basically, they all came from 2 camps of history, and both of these – from Babylon. What we now call “New Age”, is through Babylon Mysteries religion. Both of these, can be traced back, into the time of – the Babylon Empire. As already discussed earlier, Babylon was a Religious and Political Empire, which Influenced the Whole World.

Although Empires and Kingdoms, have come and gone, these Anti god Philosophies – and Religious Mysteries, have been handed down, and followed up, by Subsequent Empires.

New Age

The New Age movement, is a re-invention of Babylon Philosophies, and Religion. These have been followed throughout the centuries. These, have been under one name, or another. You find this, in:

– Education Establishments

– Work place

– Governments

– Religions

– Social Practices etc.

This Old Babylon Religious System etc, is now called New Age. It was taken from the astrological ideas. That is, that the World goes through Various Ages.

I will now show the Bad ideas, of this group, and how they can mess us up – if we let them. We need to be aware of the Falseness, so that we can preach the truth, while exposing these False Ideas.

Here is now the things, that they Falsely Preach.

They say that the Age of Pisces (the Christian era) is now over, and we are now in the, ANTI JESUS time of New Age of Aquarius. The Emerging Church, call this New Age, a Paradigm shift. The New Age of Aquarius, is an age of Spiritual Enlightenment or Illumination. By the way, Emerging Church, relates to New Age Christianity.

They call it: the “Dawning of the Age of Aquarius”. This is to be an Era of:

– Unity

– Love

– Religious Brotherhood among Humanity.

The idea of the New Age, is one of Ecumenism. It leads to a One World Society. There is a link, between New Age and Common Purpose. The person Julia Middleton, called upon New Age Entrepreneur called Anita Roddick, to help her build the organisation called – Common Purpose.

Many of her ideas, for Common Purpose, came from New Age ideas of networking. This, to find People and Organisations, with the same Common Purpose – who you can influence, to achieve the Common Purpose Goals. This was the realisation, that you need the co-operation, of those people openly – to get them to work with you. This to achieve the results.

Common Purpose follow New Age Values, and therefore support the idea of “oneness”. That is, being one, with the universe.

Therefore, they support the Common Purpose of Globalisation and the New World Order. In fact this is the case, with all New Age Groups, who are working together – to globalise and save the world, from say climate change. Therefore they support, a One World Governance.

I don’t know for sure, if Rick Warren was ever trained by Common Purpose. It is clear however, that he must have read her book, or at least been trained – by someone who had. The way Rick is operating, though, is very much – like using Common Purpose ideas. Did you know, that he consulted a New Age Guru, for ideas on church growth.

Maybe this New Age Guru, had been trained in Common Purpose. Certainly Rick is using the networking idea, and gathering influential people together, for World Peace – under Common Purpose.

Common Purpose is building up an “Army”, of tomorrow’s leaders. Many organisations, including the EU, seem to be hiring graduates – from Common Purpose, to aid them in the Globalisation process.

Please now read these 2.

“Babylon Mysteries Religion and The Catholic Church”.

“Why The Catholic Church Is Not A Christian Organisation”

These are found on my Blog page: http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-catholic-church-is-not-christian.html

Babylon Mysteries religion, was taken over by the Catholic Vatican System. Ever since the Roman Empire, hijacked the Babylon religion, it has tried to maintain its stranglehold, over the Whole World – through the religious system. This was once the Political System, fell apart.

There was a time, when the Roman rulers, ceased to rule. But the Catholic Church Did rule afterwards. It ruled most of the World, by a Reign of Terror, until the Reformation – in the 1 6th Century. Ever since the Reformation, the Vatican has sought ways, to regain its Power – and even extend it, to Total Global Control.

Ignatius of Loyola, is a key player in this aspect.  He and his six friends, founded the Jesuit Order in 1 5 3 4, and it received official Papal Sanction in the year 1 5 4 0. This all led Ignatius, to become, the Jesuit Order’s first General.

The Illuminati secret society, then Emerged. Ignatius Loyola, was the Founder of the Jesuit Order, the “Spiritual Army” of the Roman Catholic Church. He was also the Founder of the Witchcraft group. Called the Illuminati!

It is very clear, that the Jesuit Army, was merely a Witchcraft group – that was used to spread Roman Catholic Doctrine, throughout the whole world! That is what the Jesuits, are in existence for.

The Jesuits have been used, to undo all that Protestantism has done, and to get back lands and people – that the Catholic church has lost to Protestantism. One of the ways that they do this, in today’s world, is by the Evil of Ecumenism.

Now here is how the Babylon religion, continued, by the Roman Catholic church. It is linked, to the New Age of today. It shows, how the Vatican is using New Age, in its Globalisation Agenda.

The ancient name for Babylonian Mysticism, was called “Illuminism”.  The Babylonians, were part of the Mystery Religion, which was said to be – in possession of Illumination, or THE INNER LIGHT.

It is also known, that this group, had abilities – to get in touch with:

– The One

– The All

– Satan

Supposedly this meant, they had been ENLIGHTENED, or aware of the Fact, that they were (EVIL) gods. See Encyclopedia Brittanica, Vol. 1 4, 1 9 1 0, pg. 3 2 0

The Gnostics, were said to Possess the Secret Knowledge, that they were “Little gods”. This also included, that Lucifer, was the rightful Ruler – of this World! The name Lucifer, actually means Morning Star, or The Illuminated One – Light Bearer.

Thus the various, Mystery Religions, taught that it is Lucifer (or Satan) – who gives us light, and shows us that we are God. He Satan, shows us, that we do not need repentance. All we need to do, is serve Satan, and falsely realise – the “God within”, and bring Satan out, to his Full evil Potential.

Various Secret Societies, throughout the Ages, have taught this Babylonian Mysticism – because they knew, that these Mysteries, were based upon the Doctrine – of Lucifer. They were known for centuries, as “The Illuminati”. Their name was derived, from Lucifer’s name: “The Illuminated One”.

This Illuminati, has spread its Evil Tentacles, throughout the World – by Infiltrating Organisations, and setting up Secret Societies. These to work together, for Globalisation.

The most Powerful Bankers, the Rothchild’s, and the Bilderberger organisation – have such Vatican Links. This statement, is in summary, of this question: “who runs the World, and the Global scheme of things?”

God is the Overseer, who will Intervene, when necessary. But because of Man’s Rebellion toward God, He allows Satan to control them, through Political and Religious Powers. These Powers are networked together, to form a United Purpose, to unite and Rule the World – by Satan.

He uses his representative “anti-Christ”, as the “World Leader”.

God will allow this, for a short time, but will then bring Satan’s Empire crashing down – in the last year of the Seven. Then the True Church, will be TOTALLY FREE, to reign with Christ – for all Eternity.

A Late Addition to this report, made on 1 8 May 2 0 1 0.

Subsequent to this report, 2 other Posts have been written, that further show – how these are Fitting together, through:

– Political

– Economic

– Religious Conspiracies

Please read these reports:

The Manhattan Declaration and Westminster 2 0 1 0 Declaration. A New Globalised Ecumenical Movement Emerging

Comparing How To Be Truly Saved (The Biblical Way) To The Nicky Gumbel (Of Alpha Courses) False Way

I also add the comments, that are written, on those reports. So the cry goes up now:

“Come out of Babylon”  and “Do not Participate, in her Sins”.

Posted by John Chingford at 9: 5 2 am

John Chingford

An important note now, for you to read first. This helps us, to have more clarity, over my writings above.

Most of the original essence above, has not changed. It is now, that a few words have been changed, to make things easier to read. But the essence, is still mostly there.

I have now changed the writing/detail, of the above. I now use wording, that is much easier to read, and be understood.

2 9 comments:

Tony Cox said…

John, Thanks for all your hard work – and thank you for responding to my email – you encouraged me when I needed it the most.

I will say again – you have been a very positive influence in my life.

1 0: 0 0 am, April 2 0, 2 0 1 0

Expected Imminently said…

Good work John, I have been looking forward to this.

I have only glanced through as yet, I want to print it off to save my eyes (if that’s ok?)

Every blessing, Sue (Wary)

I have used my usual ‘handle’ now, that I feel confident with you, and you know me for myself.

1 1: 5 0 pm, April 2 1, 2 0 1 0

Roma said…

Thanks John, I will do as Sue here, print this off in order to keep it, and also to save my eyes. Keep up your work here and hello as well to Tony again.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

1: 5 2 am, April 2 4, 2 0 1 0

Expected Imminently said…

John

I have had further family upset, and have also been away for my hubby’s birthday. So each time I try to digest this article, something happens to prevent it – the little I have read is fascinating and I am determined to get into it sooner rather than later.

I wondered if you have heard of ‘Prophecy Update’. I find world news, related to prophecy, so encouraging – and to date, find this site fast moving, intelligent and on the ball. By far the best of its kind, in my opinion.

Site owner is Dr.Scott Sykes. http://www.prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/

Sue (Wary)

2: 0 2 am, May 0 4, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi Sue

Sorry to hear about further upset. May the Lord intervene, and bring peace, showing the light of His truth – to the minds and hearts, of your whole family. May the veil be removed, and they see clearly the truth, so that this will set them free.

I have just completed having a look, at Prophecy Update. Yes it seems good for information. However, I cannot find anything on Dr.Scott Sykes blog, which gives any clues – to his personal faith, so do not know what his faith is.

His profile mentions, he is into the terrible Hillsong music, which gives me some cause for concern.

He only ever seems to discuss prophecy issues. That is fine to a point, but it could mean that he is overbalanced on bad areas like Hillsong. My observation, is that Christians who get too caught up, in their own ideas of prophecy – become “almost” heretical, as they miss and forget, the most important parts of our faith.

They get an unhealthy hunger, for the apocalypse.

As you can see from my blog, I do see the importance of being a watchman, but also try to be balanced – by declaring the WHOLE counsel of God.

For the benefit of newsworthy articles, I see no harm in reading his items. I may even decide to include him, in my list of news reporters. However, I will read his articles with reservation, based on what I have already said.

1 2: 1 9 am, May 0 7, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi Tony

Thanks for your news item, from the Tony Blair Faith Foundation.

I have published it on my post, entitled “Tony Blair Faith Foundation, Rick Warren PEACE Agenda & One World Political Religious Government” – as it seems more appropriate there.

Sorry I haven’t replied until now. I have been very busy. Also, I have been seeking the Lord, as to what I should post next. I stated before, that I would post articles, on why we should support Israel. This is according to the scriptures. I will be focussing on that, soon.

Also, I feel led to write on the subject, “The marks/evidences of being filled with the Holy Spirit” – according to the scriptures.

1 2: 4 3 am, May 0 7, 2 0 1 0

SeanOsborne said…

John

Excellent and inspiring work in the Name and for the Glory of the Lord. Last Days Watchman has been added to my own “favourite links” listing.

God Bless, Sean

1: 1 2 pm, May 0 8, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Thanks so much Sean. Bless you.

1: 2 4 pm, May 0 8, 2 0 1 0

Expected Imminently said…

Sean

God bless your heart! I am SO pleased to see you here.

John

Sean is amazingly insightful to all thing military, especially connected with the end times. Sean all too often leaves me speechless, and that’s hard to do!

Sue

3: 5 3 pm, May 0 9, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi EI

I received and read your longer comment, but would prefer to publish it, onto a more appropriate post. However, I do not have an appropriate one, at the moment.

I have emailed you, to your personal email address, discussing it with you – and seeking your advice.

1 1: 1 2 pm, May 0 9, 2 0 1 0

Expected Imminently said…

Hello John

I have waited to write about your report in order to think about what you were NOT saying and why?

As one familiar with the issue, it was disappointing, as I was expecting further in-depth information on the subject; as it was, the only thing I did not know was the phrase ‘Common Purpose’.

For this reason, it is pointless notifying men like Dave Hunt, David Reagan even Bob Mitchell and the like, of your report, as they are already well versed on the topic. Indeed it is evident that ‘it’ is gathering momentum as I write.

However, you did make it plain in your introduction the reason for your caution, which seems to be why you wrote so little on such a huge subject. I gather that your aim was to present a careful introduction to those who know absolutely nothing at all, about the sinister background to world affairs i.e. Nimrod, Apollyon, Illuminati, order out of chaos etc; etc!

So this is not a criticism of your report, rather a setting it into the proper context of the new, uninformed believer, for which it is perfectly acceptable.

God bless your work John.

P.S. I have just seen your post to me and will TRY to log onto my email next.(It is SUCH a pain).

Sue

1 2: 2 6 pm, May 1 0, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Thanks EI,

Your observation is completely spot on. As I spent time, on producing the report, I believe the Holy Spirit was reminding me – of what issues we should, and should not focus on. At the end of the day, we are encouraged, to keep focussed on Jesus – and not on the events, that surround us.

I wanted to say much more, about Common Purpose, but there are others – with much more insight than me on the subject, who can be more informative.

My purpose, was simply to show a birds eye view, of the events on planet earth soon – showing how things, will all fit together, into ONE global (satanic) conspiracy.

But, we do not need to be concerned about this, as one day (soon), Jesus will reign. This will be, with his Christians, and with the Jewish Saints – forever. This will happen, when Christians are taken to Heaven, at the beginning of the 7 years.

Having said this, I think it WOULD be good, to notify the people you mentioned – to read my report.

The reason I say this, is because their visitors (as you say, may get too informed – and fearful into the seriousness, of individual organisations. This is, without them seeing the full picture. I am trying to present the full picture, and not get so caught up, that we cannot:

“See the wood, for the trees”.

As I prepared the report, it seems like God was leading me, to show the full picture more clearly – rather than being too informative.

Thanks again my sister, and bless you.

1: 1 5 pm, May 1 0, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi EI again,

I forgot to mention. Yes, the aim of my entire blog is to keep things simple and to the point, with main purpose to win the uninformed to Christ. The purpose of equipping Christians is to enable them to win their contacts to Jesus also.

So my blog aims to disciple/encourage believers to win others and also reach unbelievers directly. Therefore, I want to ensure my articles keep to the point of the blog and tackle/report on the main issues in a concise way rather than getting caught up into massively long reports.

I am hoping to write “readable” reports in order to grab and maintain everyone’s attention and keep them interested. So yes you were right!

1: 2 4 pm, May 1 0, 2 0 1 0

son of thunder said…

John, I’m curious as to your thoughts about the global leaders being Nephilim.

5: 5 9 am, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi again SOT

There seem to be a lot of organisations jumping onto the bandwagon of the Nephilim. Whilst I was putting my report together I noticed David Icke (new age alien conspiracist)was leading a lot of people towards the idea that the World leaders were all from the Nephilim/Alien/dinosaur seed.

As New Ageists like David Icke and other weird groups are preaching this, we should be very wary.

There are also many watchman who endorse Chuck Missler, but I have reservations because he also puts forward the Nephilim “mixed seed” teaching.

I may or may not tackle this in the future. I have reservations in this whole topic because I ask the questions:

“is it important and is it helpful to know?”, “how will it change our witness, faith and service to the Lord to know whether it is true or not?”, “if it is satanic teaching, could it harm Christians to get caught up in this whole thinking”?

I take the premise that if the scripture spells it out, then we need to know – if it is shrouded in mystery because very little is spoken on it, then it is NOT important.

Also I take the stand that we should NEVER make a doctrine or presumption based on a few verses of scripture if the main teachings of scripture speaks otherwise, i.e. a few verses of scripture cannot counter what large chunks of scripture teach as a whole.

If the few verses of scripture seem to speak in contradiction to the majority of the bible then maybe the interpretation (not the verses)are incorrect. Maybe we should consider those verses in the light of other scripture.

I wonder if the teaching about Nephilim, is one of the subjects, the person of God – should not get caught up in: re Titus 3: 9

“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain”.

Okay, having said all that, I did contact Bodie Hodge of Answers In Genesis, who is a specialist on the Nephilim subject. I will paste the email chat we had, on the next comment

5: 1 4 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

This was the reply I received, to my first email to Bodie. I have to put it into several comments as it is very large:

Part 1:

Bodie: Thank you for contacting Answers in Genesis. It is always a pleasure hearing thoughts about the Nephilim.

John: If it is true that any Godly offspring or chosen by God (whether from Seth or not) who followed God’s ways, could be considered as sons of God, why would they want to intermarry/mingle with ungodly women?

Bodie: I see your point, but even today, Christians who are called “sons of God” (Galatians 3:26) marry ungodly people.

John: If the Godly were Sons of God, wouldn’t that act of disobedience to God in intermarrying render them as no longer a son of God? I mean, if they were Godly, how is it – they were no different from the UnGodly, in that they did the same things?

Bodie: That is exactly the point, they fell away in the same way Solomon did. Further, they permitted to let their children be trained in the ungodly ways.

If people were living nearly 900 years, as per the lineage from Adam to Noah, and God’s countdown to the Flood when discussing these sons of God and their children, was 120 years before (Genesis 6:3).

Then this means that by the time of the Flood, these people who were called by a godly title traded that in for “wickedness”. For many of these godly people, “sons of God”, as they were previously known, died in the Flood.

Wouldn’t that mean that the Sons of God could not be sinful humans, even though they may have been chosen by grace as flag bearers for God.

This would make them no less human than Solomon. Keep in mind that being called “sons of God” didn’t make them perfect or sinless in their actions.

Adam was called a son of God (Luke 3:38), Israelites (Hosea 1:10, sons of the living God) and Christians are called sons of God (Galatians 3:26). However, Adam made his mistakes and we make ours.

There is no reason to assume these sons of God in Genesis 6 were without their mistakes but that doesn’t make them any less human.

But this argument actually hurts other views worse, like the fallen angel view. Why would fallen angels be dubbed sons of God – especially with their blatant hate and continual sin against God?

Besides, God did not say

“Be fruitful but only with the Godly”.

Keep in mind that when God originally made this command it was in a perfect world where there were no ungodly (Genesis 1:28). J

Therefore, was it a sin say for Seth to marry one of Cain’s daughters? Were they not instructed to fill the earth with children? How could they do it without intermarrying in the early days?

Even Cain, being a murderer, still had semblance of God and even spoke to the Lord. So we need to be careful of assuming that these initial generations were rather ungodly. God didn’t wipe them out.

In fact, it took 10 generations for that to happen. So marring among each others lineages wouldn’t have been crossing much of a godly versus ungodly line – especially off the start (remember Adam was alive to teach them too).

The biggest distinction between Cain’s line and others lines, if any, would have been distance. Recall that Cain was banished to the land of wandering (Nod – Genesis 4: 1 6) where he built a city (v. 1 7).

Most likely his descendants were isolated, so intermarrying may have been limited at first. Though there is no reason, to assume they didn’t intermarry later on. After all, something from Cain’s line, must have made it through. There are people, who play the harp, like David did, and flute (Genesis 4: 2 1). His brother’s name was Jubal.

He was the father of all those who play the harp and flute. Jubal is of Cain’s lineage, and perhaps some of the wives of Noah’s sons, have him as an ancestor.

5: 4 1 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 2:

John: Although I like the case you present, I have problems seeing, why simple marriage between fallen human beings (for all have sinned) – would be SO bad, that God would need to exercise, such a terrible judgement on ALL mankind, beasts etc.

Bodie: The Bible doesn’t say that marriages between them were the reason for the judgment. Genesis 6:5 says: Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

So the reason was such great sin and wickedness. But the sheer fact that marriages and the types were mentioned in context reveals that this played a part. Recall what God later reveals to Malachi (2:15):

But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.

The Lord was seeking godly offspring and Malachi takes this reference back to the beginning (making them one – Genesis 2:24). Paul affirms this too when he said to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

A consistent God would seek godly offspring in each generation. So a marriage to the ungodly resulted in ungodly offspring. The fact that the godly fell from their godliness (remember they were not seen as righteous either and died in the Flood) and their children and grandchildren weren’t either.

Exodus 20:3 says: “You shall have no other gods before Me.

The 10 Commandments are transcendent laws (e.g. it was wrong for Cain to murder, even prior to Moses being presented with the 10 Commandment, etc.) So it would have been wrong for anyone to have other gods besides God.

And finding a wife among the ungodly and letting one’s children grow in ways that opposed God easily accounts for such wickedness and sin that God ultimately judged with a Flood.

John: The only thing which could be so terrible would be that the whole world had become so rebellious against God with great hatred for God led by the one who hates God the most.

Bodie: We agree completely here. Satan surely played his part didn’t he? But consider this point, against the angelic view where fallen angels bred with women. According to that view those angels who did this are sent under judgment in chains, etc. (These verses are commonly used:

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment.

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgement of the great day.

If Satan were leading this cause of impregnating women, why is Satan not bound like this in Hell? For we see Satan’s actions later with Job and even tempting Christ.

5: 4 2 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 3

John: Therefore, there must have been terrible occult/magic practices going on, which resulted in corrupted and demonic humanity – with humans becoming deformed/unnatural.

Bodie: I wouldn’t discount that some of this was indeed happening (it was even happening in Christ’s day with demonic possession), however, they would still be human since they would be influencing man to be with women. The human kind has boundaries, and demons are not part of the human kind.

But with this, it pushes the responsibility of sin to fallen angels/demons as opposed to people. Let’s face it people can be downright sinful without the need to say “demons made me do it”.

J So with this, the view leads to people being the “innocent” vessels, whereas demons should have been judged. But God still punished physical people with a physical Flood that would not have affected spiritual demons in the least.

John: Could that be the reason why Nephilim still appeared in later times because of black magic practices?

Bodie: I wouldn’t discount that this may have been a contributing factor. What I’ve found is interesting is that the Nephilim appear post-Flood, without the need of sons of God to be their fathers.

This goes to show that Nephilim can appear without even the possibility of appealing to sons of God being fallen angels or influenced by fallen angels. The Nephilim in Numbers, for example, would have had parents strictly by humans.

So if they come about by humans here, then it makes sense that the sons of God in Genesis 6 would require nothing more.

John: I know that the word Nephilim is not used later in the bible but you do read of giants like Goliath. In Greek Mythology you read of giants.

Bodie: True and they were in other mythologies too, such as Norse.

John: Even today there are some incredibly tall people still existing. Could this be the affect of the mix in past generations still affecting us today?

Bodie: It seems more likely that they are merely humans with genes for being very tall. Remember, we have people who are equally short. So with the filtering of genes throughout the human population would should get some variation. Another factor to helps reveal the genetic connection to giantism:

2 Samuel 21:20 Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant.

The son of giant here, also inherited that great stature (the fingers and toes are for another discussion J). Keep in mind that giants were not as common as we might think in ancient times.

Otherwise, why was there a need to single them out, like Goliath. I hope this helps, and thanks for great discussion. God bless to you as well.

5: 4 2 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 4

2nd email to Bodie:

John: Thanks so much for your quick response! I think you have misunderstood what I was asking or the direction I was going.

1) I was not saying I believed that angels interbred with humans. I do not believe this, at the moment.

Bodie: I didn’t think you did, sorry if I gave you that impression.

John: What I was suggesting is that satan being jealous of the human beauty wanted to deform what God had made beautiful. I believe he was jealous because he lost his beauty and standing before God.

Bodie: I wouldn’t discount that this was one of Satan’s motives either. But I suggest that this would have been more for supplemental motivation to get Adam and Eve to sin in the Garden. Since Satan’s fall, he is limited, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he no longer has the ability to see true beauty because his mind is “poisoned”.

John: I believe the way that he tried to achieve this was by sending his angel servants in to mess them up with demonic possession – not demonic seed! So the HUMANS born from the daughters of men were also possessed with powers and deformity.

They were totally human as they were born naturally but demonic activity messed them up “the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy”.

Bodie: I would definitely leave this option open. There is no doubt that demons have inhabited people and messed with both their mind and bodies. We see examples of that in Jesus’ own day.

John: Anyway, even if angels did put their seed inside women (which I find hard to accept) it doesn’t mean that the children would not be totally human. Mary had “normal” children after having Jesus.

Bodie: This may not be a good comparison though. First, there is a difference between good angels and God and second, there is a bigger difference between fallen angels and God.

If you recall, God created Adam (and subsequently Eve) and breathed life into him, so God own all human life and if the Creator of the universe wants to become a man that is not a problem for Him.

Angels, especially fallen angels cannot create life as God does, and so we need to be cautious about giving qualities to angels, especially the fallen ones, that God has.

5: 5 6 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 5:

John: Couldn’t women have also been incarnate with angelic seed also?

Bodie: The Bible never says of angels to be fruitful and multiply, so there is no reason to assume they would have seed of any form. And since Jesus makes it clear angels do not marry in heaven, this is further confirmation (Matthew 22:30).

There is no reason to assume that when the fallen angels sinned, they mutated to have seed either. So I would lean against this argument.

John: This would not mean necessarily that everyone born of those children would also have the mixed seed. We do not read that post-flood activity by angels stopped. The only difference after the flood is that God said He would not judge the world again in this same manner.

Bodie: We do see their activities up to the time of Christ. I’ve tried to step back and look at the spiritual aspects of this. Let’s assume for a moment that the nephilim (offspring) were the way they were due to fallen angels (be it by interbreeding or merely demonic possession).

Would the people be entirely to blame for their actions then – especially enough for God to exercise judgment with a Flood? Consider Christ, the Son of God – did He judge those who had demons, or help them?

John: 2) Like you, I do not believe that God judged the world just because of intermarriage and agree that it was because of such wickedness of men.

Bodie: Good. I guess it was just the way it was typed.

John: However, I am suggesting that the great wickedness evolved through the worship of demons etc and probable mass demonic possession.

Bodie: The Bible does say this though. And it wouldn’t surprise me if some of this was going on.

John: Why would it mention in Genesis 6 about the sons of God intermarrying as a forerunner to then discuss how wicked man had become, if it were not related together in some way?

Bodie: Like you, I believe it was related. Consider how God instructed the Israelites (sons of the living God – Hosea 1:10) not to intermarry with pagans surrounding them (Deuteronomy 7:3-4).

The reason was to keep them and their children from being led astray to these false pagan deities. Even the wisest of all men, Solomon was led astray by his pagan wives (1 Kings 11:1-4).

Paul even reaffirms this with Christians (sons of God – Galatians 3:26) in 2 Corinthians 6:14-16, not to be yoked with unbelievers.

5: 5 6 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 6:

John: In the context it seems that the sons of God going in to the daughters of men brought the wickedness on earth to a climax.

Bodie: I think the stark contrast that God uses e.g. “sons” versus “daughters” and “of God” versus “of men”, stand diametrically opposed.

This is significant. Consider Christianity (God is the authority) versus humanism (man is the authority – remember humanism goes back to Eve when she elevated herself, a human, above God and His Word).

“Of man” in this instance reveals who the ultimate authority was for these daughters – pagan, i.e. humanistic. So the spiritual heads, sons, were giving up their spiritual privilege as the head to the pagan women (daughters) (1 Corinthians 11:7-9) and being led astray to false gods, particularly humanistic thought – just like Solomon.

And this makes sense in light of the context, where these people were men of renown – i.e. making a name for themselves among men. Contrary to their hopes, not one of their names is remembered by God. I believe this was designed by God to show what this philosophy leads to.

John: It was obviously important enough to mention as a key to the judgement. This is why I believe there must have been terrible occult practices going on, resulting in men being so corrupted by evil that even their human bodies became deformed – not necessarily because of angelic seed.

Bodie: Like I said, I wouldn’t discount this entirely, but it is not necessary.

John: 3) You mentioned God was seeking godly offspring. Remember in 1 Cor 7 Paul stated that even the children of an unbelieving partner could be sanctified by the faith of one parent.

Obviously that doesn’t mean the child is saved until they make a decision for Christ themselves, but it does give the impression of being a godly offspring. So I am not sure it is correct to say that intermarriage necessarily brings about an ungodly offspring.

Bodie: This command by Paul was specifically regarding a couple that was already married, and one the two gets saved:…If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.

And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

Also note that Paul permits the unbeliever to depart. But this is not a command given to those who are single. They are not to marry an unbeliever as Per 2 Corinthians 6:14-16. The children are clean and sanctified, but not saved, as with the husband.

5: 5 7 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Part 7:

John: Look at Bathsheba, David and Solomon. David’s act with (probably?) a gentile woman and the subsequent later birth of Solomon through this “daughter of men” did not stop Solomon being a “son of God”?

Bodie: Bathsheba was an Israelite, not a gentile, who would be under the term “sons of the living God – Hosea 1:10). Bathsheba was the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3). Elaim was the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34).

Those from Giloh (Gilonites) were Israelites who inhabited that area after the conquest of Joshua and was specifically given to the Israelites that were from the tribe of Judah – the same tribe David came out of.

Bathsheba’s husband however, was a Hittite, some of the few descendants of Canaan that were not wiped out by Joshua. And since, assimilated into the Israelite clans and fought beside them. In fact, Bathsheba’s husband was one of David’s 30 fighting men (1 Chronicles 11:41).

John: In fact, the line of Jesus came through a gentile Ruth.

Bodie: Prior to Ruth marrying an Israelite, she became an Israelite though (religious change, not by birth of course – Ruth 1:16). This is not forbidden – the same happened with Rahab and she too can be found in the lineage of Christ.

This is also acceptable for Christians – for example, if an unbelieving man becomes a Christian, then a Christian woman can marry him and vice versa.

John: As long as one partner is right with God, at some stage in their life, the child can be sanctified.

Bodie: Sanctification doesn’t necessary mean they will be godly or be saved. We find in today’s church parents who are both Christians and the children are quite sinful, rebellious, and unsaved. Sanctification is but the start for them and it is a good start otherwise, there would be no reason for Paul to have them remain in the marriage, if the unbeliever is willing to stay.

Well…I hope this helps explain it a bit more. I think I’ve read so much on the Nephilim, in the past few years, I’m now ready for something easier – maybe evolution ha ha ha.

5: 5 8 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

In summary, I would say that world leaders are not Nephilim but they are normal sinful human beings (like any of us would be without Jesus)influenced by satan and his hoards. “our battle is not against flesh and blood but against principalities ……” Eph 6.

In Daniel we see that the Archangel Michael was hindered by the princes of Persia and Greece. He wasn’t talking about men (or flesh and blood) but the demonic forces (principalities in the heavenly places) working over and through these men.

Incidentally, how could Obama be of the same genealogic Nepholim seed?

6: 0 5 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Hi

I have now opened a new post entitled “Are the global leaders Nephilim?”. I have copied/pasted all the comments below which relate to that subject to that post. Please continue the chats (which relate specifically to that subject) there rather than here, as I feel it would be better there.

Thanks

6: 4 5 pm, May 1 1, 2 0 1 0

Tony Cox said…

John

Your latest post about the Alpha Course,is right on time – I have a very close friend who took the alpha course about a year ago -my friend asked me if I wanted to go, and for some reason I was not interested at all – I did not know much about it then, but saw some information posted on Moriel about 3 weeks ago.

I started to discuss the dangers of the course with her and she listened, but is not convinced. She stated “well I am sure there are people out there, who would endorse it”.

My response was “yes, and Rick Warren is one of them” – to my surprise she had been given a copy of his book Purpose Driven Life, I then explained to her that in doing research – there are now many dual course offerings with “Alpha Course” along with “Purpose Driven Life” courses.

Did you realize these were being offered in some arenas? So, now I will share this article with her hoping it will get through.

I ran across this while searching for info on Alpha Course – I did not get the chance to find out how credible it is, but if true, it is interesting to see the financial and Illuminati connections behind the course – here is a small excerpt:

The congregation and friends of Holy Trinity Brompton financed the Alpha development, and resource courses were sold at a profit.

Since the goal was to involve the whole world in their project, Alpha International was founded in 2 0 0 1.

Capitol investment became worldwide, and was headed by a Jewish banker, Ken Costa, Chairman of Alpha Partners.

This banker just happened to be Vice Chairman of UBS -Warburg, London. UBS stands for Union Bank of Switzerland-Warburg. The banking firm of Walburg has long been linked to the giant international Marxist Rothschild banking conglomerate based in the City of London.

Isn’t it strange that Warburg would be running a Christian organization?

1: 4 4 am, May 1 5, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Thanks Tony

Very applicable to the global scheme of things.

1: 4 5 am, May 1 5, 2 0 1 0

Tony Cox said…

Hi John

Wanted to send this your way – transcript of Rick Warren in 2007 endorsing Alpha and mentioning Nicky Gumbel and Ken Coasta:

Rick was speaking about Alpha on a special video filmed in India, where his organization is working with Alpha and the Billy Graham Association in the My Hope India project through which millions came to Christ in the spring of 2 0 0 7.

Full Transcript of the Testimony by Rick Warren:

“Over 30 years ago in London, England, God began a movement that has now spread all around the world. It’s called the Alpha course, begun by my dear friends Nicky Gumbel, Ken Costa and other friends. We’ve seen this course expand to be used to reach literally millions of people to Christ.

If you have never heard of Alpha, I want to challenge you to check it out. It is one of the most effective evangelism tools for the 21st century.

The Alpha course can be used in three different ways. First, it can be used with people who have absolutely no religious background at all. It can be used with seekers or enquirers.

It is a good way to bring people to a small group study who would never be caught dead in a church – they’ll take that first step, they’ll sit on a couch with some friends and examine the claims of Christ and what is really does mean to be a follower of Jesus. Millions of people have come to Christ through this way.

A second way you can use it is to revitalize your Church, to bring new renewal in a Church which has lost its vision, that has lost its commitment, that has been on auto pilot for some time.

Many, many traditional Churches, mainstream, mainline Churches have used Alpha to find new growth and new renewal as people come alive and rediscover the vision of the great message of the good news.

A third way you can use it is to help with new believers. It is a great first step course, because it goes over the basics of why we believe what we believe and what we do believe.

Many of you have heard of the 40 Days of Purpose campaign that is also being used by God mightily around the world. 40 Days of Purpose and Alpha fit together like hand in glove. It really doesn’t matter which one you do first.

If you have done 40 Days of Purpose, you need to do Alpha: if you have done Alpha, you need to do 40 Days of Purpose, because these two are similar programs inspired by the Holy Spirit to

• deepen and develop the Church

• help us fellowship deeper

• help us grow more like Christ

• help us learn to serve in ministry

• help us to share our faith in mission

So, as the author of The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life, I, Rick Warren, want to tell you that Alpha has my 100% endorsement and I would encourage you to use it in small groups in your Church and everywhere that you can.

God bless you.

1 1: 3 9 pm, May 1 7, 2 0 1 0

John Chingford said…

Thanks Tony

I wonder if you could comment on your observations of that report by Rick Warren? By the way, I found the same article on an “alpha USA” website as follows:

http://alphausa.org/Mobile/default.aspx?group_id=1000041932&article_id=1000047767

A copy of these last 2 comments can also be found on the post about Nocky Gumbel. These latest comments help to show even more how everything seems to fit together in the global political, economic and religious conspiracy

1 1: 5 0 pm, May 1 7, 2 0 1 0

Tony Cox said…

John

I should have been clear in my post, if Rick Warren is tied in with or endorsing Alpha – that should raise a BIG GIANT RED FLAG!

I was always suspect of Alpha, and actually had no idea that Rick Warren had any association or endorsements of the program until approximately 3 weeks ago when researching for a friend of mine who attended the course as well as owning a copy of his book.

The information you have provided in the past on Rick Warren should surely be enough to raise a red flag for anyone who may have an interest in his philosophy or who he associates with.

9: 4 8 am, May 1 8, 2 0 1 0